CRIT -- Lippman's Wheel

[Dan Goodman]

People who aren't familiar with firearms generally overestimate their
destructiveness. [misc]This is handy for gun-control promoters, since
it makes the propaganda easier and yields an easily-cowed populace
when they bring their own out[/misc]

1) It's also handy for gun-rights advocates. "If you're armed, you're
safe!" Joel Rosenberg and other gun _instructors_ make it plain that
guns aren't magic -- but some pro-gun members of the chattering classes
don't.

2) The only real success at taking away firearms that I know of was in
Japan. And the shogunate did this by taking guns away from
_everybody_. From soldiers, for example. (This was probably a lot
easier to contemplate because many of those soldiers were feudal
followers of nobles rather than under direct central control -- and the
nobles weren't guaranteed to be loyal to the shogun.) See Noel Perrin,
_Giving Up the Gun_.
--
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
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[David Friedman]

Post by Dan Goodman

People who aren't familiar with firearms generally overestimate their
destructiveness. [misc]This is handy for gun-control promoters, since
it makes the propaganda easier and yields an easily-cowed populace
when they bring their own out[/misc]

1) It's also handy for gun-rights advocates. "If you're armed, you're
safe!" Joel Rosenberg and other gun _instructors_ make it plain that
guns aren't magic -- but some pro-gun members of the chattering classes
don't.
2) The only real success at taking away firearms that I know of was in
Japan. And the shogunate did this by taking guns away from
_everybody_. From soldiers, for example. (This was probably a lot
easier to contemplate because many of those soldiers were feudal
followers of nobles rather than under direct central control -- and the
nobles weren't guaranteed to be loyal to the shogun.) See Noel Perrin,
_Giving Up the Gun_.

I have a vague memory of having seen something more recent that argued
that Perrin's book exaggerated the degree to which the policy was
carried out, but a quick google fails to find any references.

[Dan Goodman]

Post by David Friedman

Post by Dan Goodman

People who aren't familiar with firearms generally overestimate
their destructiveness. [misc]This is handy for gun-control
promoters, since it makes the propaganda easier and yields an
easily-cowed populace when they bring their own out[/misc]

1) It's also handy for gun-rights advocates. "If you're armed,
you're safe!" Joel Rosenberg and other gun instructors make it
plain that guns aren't magic -- but some pro-gun members of the
chattering classes don't.
2) The only real success at taking away firearms that I know of was
in Japan. And the shogunate did this by taking guns away from
everybody. From soldiers, for example. (This was probably a lot
easier to contemplate because many of those soldiers were feudal
followers of nobles rather than under direct central control -- and
the nobles weren't guaranteed to be loyal to the shogun.) See Noel
Perrin, _Giving Up the Gun_.

I have a vague memory of having seen something more recent that
argued that Perrin's book exaggerated the degree to which the policy
was carried out, but a quick google fails to find any references.

There was probably some discrepancy between what the reports said and
the reality.

But the policy seems to have been carried out enough to leave the
shogunate outgunned by Europeans.
--
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
Mirror Journal http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
Mirror 2 http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

[David Friedman]

Post by Dan Goodman

Post by David Friedman
I have a vague memory of having seen something more recent that
argued that Perrin's book exaggerated the degree to which the policy
was carried out, but a quick google fails to find any references.

There was probably some discrepancy between what the reports said and
the reality.
But the policy seems to have been carried out enough to leave the
shogunate outgunned by Europeans.

Sure. But all that would require was that firearms were sufficiently
repressed to seriously slow technological progress.

After all, Japan as of just before the ban would have been seriously
outgunned by 19th c. Europeans too.

[Dan Goodman]

Post by David Friedman

Post by Dan Goodman

Post by David Friedman
I have a vague memory of having seen something more recent that
argued that Perrin's book exaggerated the degree to which the
policy was carried out, but a quick google fails to find any
references.

There was probably some discrepancy between what the reports said
and the reality.
But the policy seems to have been carried out enough to leave the
shogunate outgunned by Europeans.

Sure. But all that would require was that firearms were sufficiently
repressed to seriously slow technological progress.
After all, Japan as of just before the ban would have been seriously
outgunned by 19th c. Europeans too.

As I gather happened with various powers in the Middle East, India,
etc. who didn't have bans on firearms.

But I gather Japan had few enough firearms that some observers thought
there weren't any at all.
--
--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://clerkfuturist.wordpress.com
Mirror Journal http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
Mirror 2 http://dsgood.wordpress.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood